«Has anyone thought that best things ever happened unplanned?» This is nothing but a claim!

Danke für diesen Post, ich finde diese ständige Planerei auch doof und komme damit gar nicht gut zurecht. Warum muss ich denn am Dienstag, 15. Mai schon wissen, ob ich am Donnerstag, 20. Oktober ein Bier trinken gehe? Was ist, wenn ich an diesem Tag gar nicht in Zürich bin? Und wenn ich Kopfschmerzen hab? Dann muss ich absagen und bringe die ganze Jahresplanung aus dem Gleichgewicht!! ;)

There are spontaneous people in Zurich...there are dreamers as well, you just have to find them. And there are also those who don't dare not to plan or do nothing...They are busy all the time, they do something all the time, they travel a lot, but when you ask them to tell you about their journey, the just say: "It was nice." They went to Morocco for example and the only thing they can tell is: "It was nice." or "The weather was nice." And then they will talk about their problems at work. As if nothing happened in Morocco. Well, it probably didn't.
But you will also meet those who just went to the supermarket around the corner and they have a story to tell. Not planning anything at all can be a great adventure. I once received a visitor from Romania and I asked him what he wanted to do in Switzerland and he said: "Nothing."
"Would you like to go to the mountains?"
"No", he answered.
"Would you like to see a museum?"
"What for?" he replied.
But he was having fun. He stayed for a month and he went to town every day and he had stories to tell every day.

Es gibt ja auch Hobbies, die von sich aus den Kalender auffüllen. Ich, zum Beispiel spiele in einer Band, da geht ohne fixe Termine und Planung nichts. Das Selbe gilt für Mannschaftssportarten, Sprachkurse etc. So gestaltet sich ein Versuch, mit jemanden ein Bier zu trinken oft so: "Nein, heute nicht, da habe ich Probe, aber wie wärs mit morgen?" - "Da kann ich nicht, da hab ich Yoga" ... und schon ist man am Punkt, an dem man so etwas Einfaches, wie zusammen ein Bier trinken gehen, Tage voraus planen muss.
Ich habe da keine Erfahrungswerte, aber vielleicht ist hier die Art Freizeitgestaltung mit fixen Terminen weiter verbreitet als an anderen Orten.
Dazu kommt allerdings schon auch, dass Spontaneität nicht unbedingt die Eigenschaft ist, für die die Schweizer in der Welt bekannt sind.

Well, after a week I thought it was time for me to summarise what has been said and to (kind of) answer some points or rather assumptions. Here we go:
- (Obviously) generalising is not right but there are some distinctive cultural trends without falling into stereotyping.
- (Also obviously) we are all different and there are some of us that are by nature (and nurture?) more inclined (notice the diplomacy?) to plan than others. www.myersbriggs.org
- There are some that allege that as there are so many things to do (in Zurich), one needs to plan in advance; and there are some that argue that people are afraid of "doing nothing" (and therefore having no pictures to post in Facebook) ;-)
- (Apparently) Swiss ;-) are not so interested in mix or being mixed and prefer to concentrate on one or few people at the time (exact time?); and as there are so many interesting people in Zurich, one needs to split his/her time between them...
- ...
- One interesting one: an spontaneous invitation for dinner...with one day notice ;-)
So, as there are no right or wrong, I would like to just invite the ones and the others (and the in between-ers) to try the dark side and see how it feels. Let's start with small doses of it: a plan/unplanned weekend. Up for it?
Happy Züri :-)

Meiner Meinung nach ist es in Zürich schon etwas schlimmer als auf dem "Land". Mit vielen meiner Freunden aus der Stadt muss ich auch immer schon einen Monat vorher einen Termin machen für z.B. Ausgang oder so. In meinem Heimatort reicht ein Telefon am Freitag Abend und 1 Stunde später sitzt man zusammen in der Bar.
Einerseits handelt es sich sicher um einen Teufelskreis weil alle so verplant sind, muss man schon lange im Voraus abmachen, was wiederum zu grösserer Verplantheit führt. Anderseits wollen viele auch total verplant sein. Nichts vor zu haben wäre für diese Leute quasi verlorene Zeit oder schlimmer noch ein Armutszeugnis (zu wenig beliebt, zu wenig Freunde, Pläne etc). Kommt dazu dass man heute viel mehr in der Gegend rumreisst. Städtereisen, Skiweekends etc. gehören quasi zum Routineprogramm und finden regelmässig statt. Also ist man sowieso nicht für spontane Aktionen verfügbar.. und man stelle sich mal vor man wäre einfach zu hause am weekend und würde nichts machen ausser sich auszuruhen... dann könnte man ja gar keine Bilder und Beiträge auf Facebook posten was man gerade ach so tolles macht! ;)

I think the folks here are working a lot and many hours a day, so free time is mostly being shifted to weekends - and these then are fully booked quite quickly - can imagine it is some kind of a vicious circle, keeps on running.
what i find really a shame: fullfilling basic "needs" such as having dinner (even only for 2) or spontanious idea for going to the cinema on a thu, fri or sat: f-o-r-g-e-t it. "Do you have a reservation" "*no^^" "oh i am so sorry, we are fully booked."
but it's just the way it is...when in rome.....

Well, I don't think that the other cantons are much of a difference. I went to other cantons (LU, GE, TI, BL, ZG, AG, SH) quite often and they are not really better than the Zurich guys.
IMHO it also depends on the size of the towns the people life in. In big towns, where everything needs to be done ASAP, they plan their jobs and get used to it and never stop planning (like a perfect family with 2 kids and dog/what are we going to eat the next month/etc. etc. ).
In small villages everything seems more relaxing and they are not that much in a hurry. What ever happens just happens. And their only plans are like 'well, let's go to the city or the lake and we still can figure something out there'...

mloitnas, I agree with your assumption that best things happen unplanned. What I don't understand is, why you think that all Zürcher are 3 weeks ahead with their schedules. Me personally, I only plan the big events. For example a good concert you have to get your ticket in advance. The rest of the time i let things just happen. And they do happen! You would not believe the easter weekend I just experienced. I had the most amazing day/night and I didn't plan anything. And I see that a lot of my best friends handle it in a similar way.
It's a bummer you haven't found the uncomplicated persons you're looking for. But keep your eyes open, because there are spontaneous people in Zürich. :)
Of course, I also know some other examples of friends who always need to plan everything and if you wanna meet them you have to tell them 2 weeks in advance... But I kinda lost contact with those persons because I wanna be flexible with my free time.

I strongly recommend visits to other Swiss cantons, in particular the french and italian speaking ones, and Kanton Graubünden may also be interesting for you as well as Berne and Basel! unluckily everyone ends up in Zürich, where the best paid jobs and most clubs, cinemas, restaurants and shopping centres are... the problem is: Zürcher are the most unfriendly and most structured Swiss people! sadly enough, people coming from abroad do not know this! get to know the whole of Switzerland!!! Zürich does absolutely not stand for the prototypical Swiss culture. and don't forget: we have 4 languages, various cultures and endless dialects. get out Zürich and have a look at the rest, or you'll miss out the best!
P.S. ... but don't expect us to be like brasilians... never forget that we have "invented" the watch, and our bus, tram and train timetables are sort of THE perfection!!! that says it all!

i'd say checkonetwo and chaotikerin put it the right way. job, friends in diff. places, many hobbies - it needs some kind of organisation sometimes. this happens to me as well...
mostly during wintertime i'm "busy". free time is planned with trips to the mountains. almost everytime other resort (i like variety), so you have to plan where to stay over night etc.
but to be honest.. i also "plan" lazydays. these days are just blank and meant to do nothing or what ever comes up that singe day... doing NOTHING is important for as well.
check this: www.tagesanzeiger.ch

Ich muss mir von meinen irischen expat-freunden diesen vorwurf auch oft anhören. zb fragte ich den einen, ob er wohl am silvester mit uns in die berge fahren will. er war entsetzt, dass er ein halbes jahr vorher schon festlegen muss, wo er am silvester sein wird. bei gewissen dingen geht es halt nicht anders. wenn ich an den feiertagen ein chalet in zermatt mieten will, kann ich das nicht ende november entscheiden. wenn ich im sommer einen platz auf einem segelboot haben will, muss ich das jetzt buchen. ganz einfach.
für mich kann ich sagen, ich sehe meine geplanten aktivitäten ja nicht als blocker, die mich daran hindern, mein leben zu leben. ich plane ja nur aktivitäten, die ich mag, mit leuten, die mir wichtig sind. ich bin auch äusserst allergisch auf leute, die sich einfach nie festlegen können. das hat so was von "ich halt mir alle möglichkeiten offen, und wenn was besseres kommt, bin ich weg." spiegelt sich halt in den beziehungsdiskussionen hier auch wider :-)

I can confirm your observations. My guess is that the Swiss are by nature a planning people. Banking, engineering, watchmaking, everything Switzerland stands for is time based and requires careful planning. Reliability, continuity and quality are paramount for most people here. "Spontaneous" is exactly what Switzerland is not. Switzerland is predictable, that's its quality, that's why people put their money here, why they want to do business here. Must have some effect on the local people. They like it well-planned and my guess is they're scared of what might happen when there's no plan. Sense of adventure? Not a very Swiss quality.
Secondly it seems to me that the Swiss don't like group outings as much as other nations. (Italians for example solely exist in groups, no?) The Swiss are a nation of "couplers", they meet that ONE friend for the whole night, or one friend until 9pm, the next at 9.30 (and don't get there late...) Hence the careful planning to see all your friends, and it takes a lot time to see all of them. In other countries you would simply say: "join in!" In Switzerland there is something private and exclusive about meetings with friends.

As I am not swiss I am not allowed to comment on my own planning habbits ;) but I actually don't fully share your observation!
I meet so many people who don't want to commit themselves to appointments....among them also Swiss. In the morning when you ask them to join a concert taking place on the same evening they are really in the mood for it - but when then evening arrives they are too tired.... the worst is the new years eve until the very end people don't decide what they do. Personally, I have a lot of events that I absolutely want to go (concerts, dance perfromances,...) because I am so happy that the respective band, dj etc. is coming to Zürich.... of course still it can happen that I am tired... but I have to be really tired to miss out...
Many people I know are also actually working so hard, that they are neither planning their free-time nor spontaneously join - cause there's hardly any freetime. But this depends of course on the profession and ambition - in Zürich there are also a lot of people with lots of freetime. It could also be more a character thing... after some time you know who will say "yes" but stay at home and who will say "yes" and counts on your presence and who until the very end doesn't want to decide (just to say a very late no). Luckily, there are people who have similar taste and level of plannning/spontanity/freetime. I am so happy to have a few really cool best friends. We meet very often - really uncomplicated - it just works...

Next time you want company just call me, I still have more leasure time than friends & spend much of it on my own - which can be satisfying, too. As for "spontaneous", for the Swiss, it's like "geniessen" (enjoy). Everybody thinks of him/herself as a "Geniesser" - but how many of them really are? Most of them rush & fill their diaries with appointments, and finish their glass of wine before I said "hello".